IRISH BLOODSTOCK FORUMS :: View topic - When you buy a mare/filly for breeding.....

Little Man»Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:08 am
The price is always my deciding first box to tick and the lower the better! Reply

Serendipity»Sun Apr 18, 2021 16:21 pm
Within a budget, conformation then character - must be easy to handle and foal - then racing performance then pedigree which includes the performance of relatives. Reply

amadán»Sun Apr 18, 2021 19:29 pm
Pedigree: I want to have plenty of inbreeding in the 4th, 5th, 6th generations of the future foal, and that inbreeding must not be TWO SONS of a duplicated sire. I will have picked the sire(s) for the mare before I buy the mare. The mare must match four or more sires. My main concern is that the sires of the 3rd dam on the dam line, the sire of the 4th dam on the dam line, and the sire of the 5th dam on the dam line must have produced thousands of offspring in three generations i.e. great grandchildren. This almost ensures you can match the mare well with sires at stud, to give the desirable "son & daughter" of a duplicated sire, or "two daughters" of a duplicated sire. ................................. Pedigree of her sire is of little concern. I am more concentrated about how the mare will match with sires. .............. Conformation: she can walk like a crab for all I care. Has she produced a foal (is she fertile?). Can she produce a foal? You can not judge the conformation of a foal before you even buy the mare. What you can do is find out if the mare is a Plusvital / Equinome C.C (sprinter); C.T (middle-distance); T.T (stayer) if she was genetically tested, or judge it by her racing distances. I had my two mares and yearling tested so I know what type of runner they will produce, and I will try to avoid a sprinter sire with a sprinter mare (you could get a 3f horse). If the mare on offer never raced you are buying a lottery ticket. .............. Racing performance: any form will do. My mare won once and was placed three times in class 5 and 6 races (the dregs) in ten starts. Black type is a poor poor quide (I was going to use another first adjective). Only 11% of black type winners are from black type winning mares. Why are 89% of black type winners by non-black type winning mares? ................. Personality: I avoid nasty animals. The stud have enough to worry about without foisting a psycho on them. ................... Full brother / full sister performances: If they were good you will pay a heavy price for the mare. I would much, much, much prefer to have full siblings in the 4th, 5th, 6th generations of the planned foal, preferably full brother and full sister (lotto winning stuff). .................. Half brother and half sister: do not bother with these. You pay more, and the pedigree is only 50% of what you are buying, and then 25% of your future foal. ............. Her dam's racing performance: again you pay big money for that. I have the ratings (if found) of all the dams on the dam line. If there is no 100+ rated horse to be found get worried. Ignore people telling you the 3rd dam bred a good horse. That good horse has a completely different pedigree to your mare. If, for example, the 3rd dam of the mare you are buying bred a good horse to Darshaan, but in your mar's pedigree was bred to Rainbow Quest (in the pedigree) then that great horse quoted to you has only 1 horse in 14 in common with your mare (2+4+8=14) i.e. only 1 of the 8 is the same. Good advertising, but no logic. Reply

amadán»Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:03 am
I do rant and rave a bit on the subject, often incorrectly. Re-reading my post today a name for a horse popped into my head to describe me, and I might use it. Reply

Reference Point»Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:53 am
Amadan. I think you have something when you look at the dam sires and granddam sires. I tend to do that as well and its why when I breed my mares I like stallions from a good family (if I can get them). I also am keen on dams performance and think you can pick them up cheaply enough if you are patient. I bought a street sense filly out of a stakes winning 2yo and 3yo (in fact she was a little fancies for the French Guineas), her full sister won 4 races in the USA (non stakes) and she has a leger winner close up. She cost me a couple of grand. I bought a bought a mare whos second dam is Fearless Revival for less than that. I think it is probably a really good second best option and would be better than many other a number of other attributes. Reply

Irish Paddy»Sun Apr 18, 2021 21:25 pm
Obviously the catalogue comes out before you can see the mare so first I select the catalogue pedigrees that appeal to me. However, when I get to the sales to inspect - then it is the individual package of presence that will tick my first box. That presence is about, size, scope, conformation (acceptance of faults which most horses have) and how the individual uses themselves. There are faults which I can accept in one individual but cannot accept the same fault in another. Reply

Dargent»Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:52 am
1. Pedigree 2. Rating or half brother or sister rating. 3. Have they a good walk. 4. Confirmation 5. Do they have vices. Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:39 am
1.Pedigree it must be a pedigree that you will be able to use. Its pointless buying a mare with for example Sadler's Wells, Danehill, and Green Desert, and it is just as pointless buying a mare who is by a very bad broodmare sire like Invincible Spirit. There are also a lot of horses that I don't like to see in a pedigree for one reason or another. A lot of it is pure prejudice on my part but I think a lot of us are that way inclined. 2, Form. It is almost essential to have a mare with some 2yo form. She needs to be a winner if not at 2yo out of a mare that won at 2yo. 3, Conformation, you need a mare to be as correct as possible and of course all mares need to be free from obvious conformation problems around their genital areas, remember they don't very often improve and with use generally get a lot less fit for purpose so never buy one with obvious problems in that region. A good walk is always better than a crab and for those who don't think that looks are significant just remember you are going to have to look at it several times every day. Then its all about price and I suppose fashion comes into it, pointless buying a mare by a stallion that is not getting his progeny into good sales slots. Stakes winning half siblings and three quarter siblings are nice but absolutely irrelevant except for on a sales page. Reply

Villicious»Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:45 am
These topics are always a bit daft, but always a lot of fun!
Temperament is so difficult to judge as a lot of horses will eventually settle at the sales though you might find they aren’t very easy to live with at home and plenty of horses hate the sales experience but will become little lambs once back home and in a routine. I wouldn’t wear a boxwalker but might consider the other no nos and I wouldn’t buy a proper toer inner but maybe would on an older mare. Half sisters, brothers aunts uncles of merit help you with mating decisions but bump the price up and are no indicator of merit in the subject mare.
To ignore conformation is plain stupid Amadan. You are throwing good money after bad if you think that the mare and the stallion you choose aren’t the OVERWHELMING factors in what you will be breeding. Test your pedigree theories all you like but it is not fair and plain daft to expect a useless mare to bail you out. Test them on a mare that has half a chance at the off. Reply

Reference Point»Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:55 am
I only buy mares from Mr Prospector sire lines. I think all other things being equal, you will generally be ok for most commercial stallions. Reply

Reference Point»Mon Apr 19, 2021 13:27 pm
Only 11% of black type winners are from black type winning mares. Why are 89% of black type winners by non-black type winning mares? -- You really got me thinking about this Amadan, I was very surprised by these numbers and it went hugely against my intuition. After thinking about it for a while I realised its a bit of statistical slight of hand and it means little or nothing. The point is how many black type winning mares being bred are there? not many compared to the rest of the population in fact far, far less than 11% (maybe you could do that calculation). You still have a bigger chance (how much needs more calculating but I guess a lot more) of breeding black type winners from black type winning mares than 0-60 handicappers (I really wish that wasn't true as I don't have any black type winning mares). I would guess that you could study pedigrees forever and a day but if I had the money and bought a group winning mare from the sales and bred her randomly to any stallion I would get a black type winner before your 0-60 mare with the perfectly matched stallion. Reply

Reference Point»Mon Apr 19, 2021 13:41 pm
and the reason 89% of black type winners are from non black type mares are because there are too many black type races and something has got to win them. Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:13 am
Absolutely correct RP I did some work a few months ago but can't find the reference I think a black type horse is generally accepted to be rated 100+ the % of horses rated 100+ in the population is quite small. I had a BHA spreadsheet somewhere if I find it I will do the math again. Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:28 am
Out of nearly 13,000 horses with a rating there were 500 rated at 100 or higher on the flat and the number of fillies in this group was 120. So you can see how small the % in the population is. Actually it makes the initial assessment quite good of such a small % of the population is getting 11% of black type winners they are hugely outperforming the population. Reply

Megabucks»Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:31 am
I wonder how many of the 120 (rated fillies over 100) how many - if any - were not Black Type ? Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:44 am
Sorry MegaB there is no quick way to do it, but there will be quite a few and I think there might be just as many rated under 100 with blacktype so lets not get too carried away. The point was made the number is very small and that is why non black type mares produce stakes winners. What is for sure is that black type mares are producing black type winners at a much higher rate than non black type mares. Here endeth the lesson! Reply

amadán»Tue Apr 20, 2021 18:01 pm
The stallion and the mare are the ONLY factors in breeding. But I do not care how they look. I care how they run, but more importantly I care how the sire and the dam pedigrees match (inbreeding match). As mentioned many times before on the forum I found the names of all 450+ yearlings sold at a yearling sale in the last decade, looked up their cost, race earnings, ratings. Only about ten made better than break even after training fees, with three making money. I assume all these were bought by experts who bought on looks (conformation is the word), but probably a bigger factor was how much their clients would pay. ..................................... It is ok to buy a cheap mare to produce a good horse after studying pedigrees in detail before buying. The other side of the coin is paying more money and expecting a "good" mare to produce good horses. ......................................... I was looking at the pedigree of Camelot (RPR 126) from the Group 3 x 1 and Listed x 2 winner Tarfah (RPR 106). In my data she produced foals by Galileo, Montjeu, Cape Cross, Pivotal, Oasis Dream, Shamardal. She may have produced more but my Return of Mares annuals are in my house in Co Tipperary and I am in Dublin so can't check. .................... According to pedigreequery.com the offspring earnings were: 2008 Ideal (f) (RPR 80) by Galileo, earnings GBP 6,762; 2009 Camelot (m) by Montjeu, earnings GBP 1,926,569; 2015 Athary (f) (65) by Shamardal, earnings USD 4,165, and the foals by Cape Cross, Pivotal, Oasis Dream I can not find a record. ............... You have to ask yourself why one good foal from Montjeu, and nothing from five other top class sires. If you are making a case for CONFORMATION are you saying that Galileo, Cape Cross, Pivotal, Oasis Dream, Shamardal had bad conformation and Montjeu had good conformation? ......................................... I had a look at my ratings file and can give a list of 1,100 horses where there is a difference of 60 or more ratings points between the runner and the dam (either way). Good examples are El Condor Pasa (RPR 136) and his dam Saddlers Gal (RPR 52) (earnings zero); Sulamani (130) and Soul Dream 65; Desert King (130) and Sabaah (67); Almaaseh (55) and Al Bahatri (123) ....................... and of course Habibti (132) and her foals, all by top sires: Desert Darling (67); Desert Lily (82); Diamond Habit (NR); Four Seasons (33); Hameeda (79); Nanouche (25); Reem Albaraari (68.); Woodbury Lad (73). Habibti probably had good conformation. She could certainly run a bit. The sires of her above foals were Green Desert; Sadler's Wells; Hector Protector; Dayjur; Woodman. Reply

Villicious»Tue Apr 20, 2021 20:48 pm
Of course it is the racecourse test that matters Amadan. I was probably not clear in that I believe the compromise made when budget is a problem should not be conformation of the mare. I have said it before that If I was to look at the horses in the paddock for the Oaks (all out of financial reach obviously) they would be vastly physically superior to those in a Seller at Southwell. So conformation does have a massive bearing on racecourse ability and the superb looking Camelot who is turning into a useful sire bears that out. I suspect he would have much outshone his lesser siblings physically and he is the package that can keep delivering as everything is mechanically in the right combination. If a pedigree has not delivered and the result is a badly conformed horse then that is a massive hurdle to overcome. Good horses don’t run on their pages they race on their mechanics so that’s the place to start and if you wander round the paddocks at Coolmore it’ll be quite obvious why what works, works. Of course people overpay for a catwalk model and there’s a good reason for that. [/list] Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:17 am
The pedigree, The form, The conformation its all important and its difficult to compromise on any. Where you compromise is the difference between us but to disregard any element is folly. Conformation is vital, for soundness and balance and simple conversion of energy. To think that it does not matter is a very big mistake. Amadan just to address your comments re Habibti, she was a fair model, not without fault but well within acceptable limits. She did however have a rather odd pedigree for that time and it was one that would be very difficult to work with given the stallions standing at that time. I have an analysis which tests hypothetical affinity between stallion and mare and I can tell you Sadler's Wells and Habibti had very little affinity and a degree of negative affinity between Habitat and Thong, Green Desert was hardly any better and Woodman ditto. Polish Precedent and Hector Protector were just bad sires. She had a Shirley Heights foal which died as a foal and while the elements in the pedigree mix look OK (Nasrullah) for her she was a sprinter pure and simple and both Shirley Heights and Sadler's Wells were genuine 12 furlong runners so it was stretching it a bit to expect a lot of harmony within the progeny. Quality mares by and large produce better quality foals and poorly conformed mares of low ability will struggle to provide breeders with anything of merit. Reply

Villicious»Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:18 am
I have always felt TOTH that before the advent of Galileo, putting stamina stallions over sprinting mares was one of the worst (‘simplistic I know) mistakes to make. In another universe I once worked with the good, fast and well bred Bold Lad mare Amaranda. She would be nearly a contemporary of Habibti and had very similar matings with not enough success also. I think that Galileo carries a degree of physical similarity to Miswaki and I suspect that is the pedigree factor that might make him work over a faster mare when the recipe is not usually desirable.e [/list] Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Wed Apr 21, 2021 13:06 pm
I used to work in agriculture and was always in suffolk and as a mad race fan used to spend a lot of time on the gallops in Newmarket very early beofre I started to make my work calls. One day I met up with an old bloke and we chatted about all sorts of things racing and he invited me back to his trainers yard for a coffee. It was 'Budge' Moller. He took me to Harry Wraggs and they invited me to watch work for the 2 yo fillies and they told me they had the fastest filly they had ever seen and they didn't expect her ever to be beaten. It was Amaranda. She routinely worked sub 11 second furlongs on the bit without breaking sweat. Mr Moller was a very kind man who was exceptionally transparent about his horses and we became regular friends meeting up on the gallops. He gave me plenty of advice about breeding. Reply

Villicious»Wed Apr 21, 2021 15:29 pm
We are all proof of the ‘six degrees of separation’ theory in this industry! There is always a link. I am pretty sure Amaranda was a Sangster mare at stud but I don’t remember as I was new to the game and ownership detail passed me by back then. I used to enjoy the Moller horses and they certainly had a purple patch in the turf’s history. It was also very impressive what John Ferguson did for them in the early days when
the Estate left a sum of money to keep the name alive by purchasing yearlings after Eric Moller died. Funnily enough I seem to remember it was quite on topic as he bought a very good looking horse that used to out run their pedigrees I felt! Reply

amadán»Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:49 am
The thread was about "When you buy a mare/filly for breeding ..... what boxes do you tick?". If people could judge horses on conformation they would be rushing from the parade ring to the bookies and collecting. I mentioned a fair racemare, Tarfah (RPR 106) who produced one good one and five duds to top stallions. A breeder wants to pick a broodmare, and this is the important bit, and a stallion that will produce good runners with her. ....................... If you think everything is conformation or race ability of the sire and dam what about Blandford (1919) who sired four English Derby winners and eleven English classic race winners. Blandford ran only four times due to bad forelegs (not a conformation positive). .................... This is from a book I have "Blandford's 74 male progeny that won, won 198 races and GBP 250,057. Of this amount GBP 203,000 [81%] was won by only 14 horses [14/74 = 19%]. Out of the 14, 9 colts and the good filly Harina are from mares that are by sons of the same sire [i.e. sire of the broodmare sire]." That sire of the broodmare sire was Desmond (m). The 9 good Blandford winners with Desmond as sire of the broodmare sire were: Trigo; His Grace; Athford; Harinero; Primero; Buland; Buland Bala; Statesman; Solicitor General. Five of Blandford's good winners were from Athasi (f) by Farasi (in my data this sire has only six offspring). Blandford sired only a few small winners from mares by the best broodmare sire of his day: Bachelor's Double; Phalaris; Orby. Reply

Villicious»Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:59 pm
I don’t think breeding is all about conformation for sure Amadan. But you start with something badly put together then you are starting with a failure and clever matings will remedy that only on rare occasion. Too rare to contemplate in in my opinion. Of course it is possible to point to examples, but like the 11% stakes winners stat. earlier, they are too often taken out of context and given excessive significance. Reply

MYOPI»Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:10 am
Pedigree is my first box for me to click. If a smashing looking mare has no pedigree - then I am not interested. Reply

Reference Point»Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:33 am
Yes but what is a decent pedigree? A good family, a decent sire, plenty of black type, lots of winners? Everyone sees a pedigree different. I agree Amadan, there is a lot of luck involved and getting hung up on one thing or another is probably a bit futile. Reply

amadán»Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:58 am
Full siblings in the first six generations, one a dam, one a sire. Reply

Reference Point»Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:11 am
Is Dressed in Fur a good example? Reply

amadán»Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:39 am
No. The inbreeding is too close. Avoid anything with inbreeding 3x3 or closer. Look up Light Fingers (1961) as a good example. Reply

Reference Point»Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:59 am
That's quite an old one! As far as I can see Amadan she didn't breed anything of note. Her full sister passionate (no sort of racehorse) did ok. Reply

amadán»Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:48 pm
I am not talking here about buying a broodmare that has a full sibling sister and brother in her pedigree. The reason is you are unlikely to find one, and if you do it will be full brothers like Kris / Diesis or Sadler's Wells / Fairy King. You buy the mare to produce a racehorse like Light Fingers or Red Handed (another Melbourne Cup winner). Both were sired by Le Filou out of a Red Mars mare to produce top runners. You buy a mare that has one horse in her pedigree that is one full sibling, and send her to a stallion that has the other full sibling of the opposite sex in his pedigree. That takes a lot of research. ............. It would be a bit much to expect to breed a top winner (twice in this case, or three times if you count their close relation Big Philou), and expect them to be big winners and also big breeders. Would you not be satisfied to buy a broodmare that matches well with a stallion to produce a foal with the desired full sibling brother and sister combination? Then every year you send the mare to the same stallion, and get a top horse every year. That goes against the grain of most breeders who send their mare to a different stallion every year because they think some new stallion will sell well at the sales because they heard someone say something. Top breeder Federico Tesio was quick to sell his top horses. He might have needed the money, but I think a better reason was he could not get the sire / dam combination for a good horse again from his top colt/mare that was already a carefully planned and successful pedigree. Reply

Reference Point»Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:10 am
It took me a while to digest that one Amadan. I think you are wrong about this (-- Would you not be satisfied to buy a broodmare that matches well with a stallion to produce a foal with the desired full sibling brother and sister combination? Then every year you send the mare to the same stallion, and get a top horse every year. --). Such a scenario would be extremely unusual and aiming for it would be a massive risk. Even the very best mares have plenty of moderate/poor racehorses. Obviously if you can get to Galileo every year it may prove your point to a certain extent but you would need to be very wealthy. It is also quite short sighted as you won't be breeding with any of the fillies. But the most important point is that your broodmare's racing ability would be a far greater indicator of her potential as a broodmare. I think your analysis is of huge benefit when you have a good mare ensuring you are giving her the best chance with a stallion. Trying to breed a good filly from a modest mare that you then can then have little confidence in breeding with her seems a little pointless. Reply

Reference Point»Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:30 am
I could have summed that up and said 'you don't breed to race you race to breed'. Reply

Green Man»Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:35 am
Well I breed to race, that's for sure but in between the breeding and racing there is the little matter of selling! So perhaps we should be breeding to sell - and if everyone wants to buy it then that is a good reason to hold on to it! Reply

Reference Point»Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:48 am
I think Green Man that's where a lot of people are in the breeding game at the minute. For commercial breeding you tend to breed to race but it is fundamentally detrimental to the breed (and by the way nowhere near as profitable in the long run). We are all guilty of it to a certain point (you have to sell some) but if the only thought is the next generation then it is a very short term plan. Reply

amadán»Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:33 am
Would you not be satisfied to buy a broodmare that matches well with a stallion to produce a foal with the desired full sibling brother and sister combination? Then every year you send the mare to the same stallion, and get a top horse every year. --). Such a scenario would be extremely unusual and aiming for it would be a massive risk. .............. [Reply] I analysed 159,000 rated horses and identified the inbreeding that results in increases in ratings, and identified the inbreeding that results in decreases in ratings. I then analysed 2,346,000 test-matings of 3,000+ broodmares offered at the breeding stock sales against the 600+ stallions in my price range, and picked the best match, bought the mare and sent her to the stallion. Every mating is a massive risk. ............................................................................................ Even the very best mares have plenty of moderate/poor racehorses. Obviously if you can get to Galileo every year it may prove your point to a certain extent but you would need to be very wealthy. It is also quite short sighted as you won't be breeding with any of the fillies. ..................... [Reply] The pedigree I chose (see above) is designed to produce a good race colt OR a good race filly. The mare(s) I use for breeding are chosen by a big sample as mentioned above. I believe it is very unusual to have a filly that is both a good racemare and a good broodmare. Clive Harper in his book analysed mares listed as “top 2yo filly”; “top 3yo filly”; “top older mare”; “broodmare of the year” and found only eight were top in both categories i.e. racemare and broodmare, and he identified the pedigree factors in each category. ……………… I know “the very best mares” produce moderate/poor racehorse, and I analysed all the foals by Tarfah, and identified in his pedigree why Camelot was best by far despite a poor dam line (and the others foals poor). ……………....…………………… If I am lucky to breed a good racemare I know that that is almost always different to a good broodmare. There is a market where you can sell winning fillies, fillies who win Listed or Group races, fillies with high ratings. ..................................................................... But the most important point is that your broodmare's racing ability would be a far greater indicator of her potential as a broodmare. I think your analysis is of huge benefit when you have a good mare ensuring you are giving her the best chance with a stallion. Trying to breed a good filly from a modest mare that you then can then have little confidence in breeding with her seems a little pointless. ........................ [Reply] I compared the ratings of runners with the ratings of their sire, and the ratings of their dams, in 5 ratings points bands e.g. 0-5; 6-10; 11-15; 16-20; 21-25 and so on up to 145-150. I know there is a strong relationship between dam rating and foal rating, but there is very wide variation in foal ratings within each band. You are probably quoting my own work on this back to me as I have several times posted the tables online. If I succeeded in weaning people off their fixation with black type and onto ratings I consider that a bonus. ……………………….. I did not say I was trying to breed a good runner (colt or filly) from a modest mare. That is the opinion of others. My aim is to produce a runner that has a better rating than the mare. I do not remember saying I wanted to breed a filly that I intended to breed from. I do not know where you got that. The first foal was a filly (that is luck) but my intention is to race her. I will stress again that my preference when breeding is to select a mare from thousands and a sire from hundreds to provide millions of choices, and pick the best choice (in my opinion), and repeat that stallion and mare breeding every year to produce racers (not breeding stock). Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:56 pm
Its relatively simple to breed a runner that is better than the mare if the mare is rated 50. Not so sure it is anything like as simple if the mare is rated 100. I bred 2 runners rated over 100 from a mare who was rated in the low 50's but it was a different thing then (it was in the 1980's) its much harder now because there are more horses in that low grade, say sub 70. And in my opinion the ratings within that group are very speculative. Amadan if you breed a winner, especially a 2yo winner you will get offers regardless of its pedigree. That is commerce working and nothing to do with breeding theory. I think it is best to sell although I never used to do it myself until I learnt a very expensive lesson. I had a nice staying horse and he won well a terrible race on a low grade track. I was offered a lot of money for what I considered a moderate run but I had a plan for him so I ran again and he won next time out by over 7 lengths in another terrible race but he was very impressive. I was offered even more money but my plan was to sneak into the Ebor with a low weight, I would possibly need another win so I refused to sell. We were prepping him for a good handicap and on his last bit of work he pulled up lame with a serious tendon injury and never ran again. Reply

Reference Point»Thu Apr 22, 2021 16:19 pm
Thanks for taking the time for that response Amadan. I genuinely hope it works out for you. Reply

Reference Point»Thu Apr 22, 2021 16:33 pm
Its relatively simple to breed a runner that is better than the mare if the mare is rated 50 --- Yes TOTH this is unquestionably true. However it is still a good aim for a breeder to improve his stock and be very wary about breeding from one that isn't as good --- at least until you have hit the dizzy height of breeding black type winners. Reply