Villicious
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 16:44 pm |
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| Anyone got their teeth stuck into him yet? Pop back a generation or two and it’s a who’s who of fantastic racehorses. The dams, not so much. I worry about size, wind and action but I dare say a lot of people will get over that and indeed I might be one of them.
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- Reference Point»Wed Sep 06, 2023 18:53 pm
Well he was a fantastic looking 2yo with performances to match(122 OR). He was a classic winning miler and placed in another 2 G1s as a 3yo. Hes from a really good family by a stallion who has got a good stallion. If you're in that league I'm not really sure what there is to think about. Reply
- Oreally»Wed Sep 06, 2023 20:28 pm
What will the fee be? Reply
- Reference Point»Wed Sep 06, 2023 20:38 pm
£35k if they are in a good mood. Reply
- TOPOFTHEHILL»Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:33 am
I think they will want to start him off a bit higher RP. For me, and its entirely personal, he goes into a file 'There are more questions than answers'. and thats even before I start to look at his pedigree. I am not sure about his credentials. He was always 'over big' for my liking, and even if you didn't ask yourself why, his racing career would suggest that he had a wind issue which just got worse as he got older. You would imagine with all the veterinary support available it would have been a significant issue. Of course we might be over thinking it and he may just have got brassed off with racing. But is that a trait you want in a stallion? There are a few little concerns in the pedigree too, the second dam is close inbred to Nijinsky, which I don't see very often. There are no real tryers on the damline. I would always like to see one close up that ran quite a few times even if they were not high class. Some of these were quite highly tried but it really didn't work out that well. ONe of the dams in the back pedigree was bought for quite a lot of money by James Delahooke and I wish he was still about to ask him what he saw in her. You would always learn something from him. Well thats what I mean by more questions than answers, for me I will wait and see what he can do, I am sure he is going to get a reasonable chance to shine. Reply
- Reference Point»Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:05 am
I don't disagree with anything you say TOTH but none of that will matter too much in his first season. He will get a full book and be very sought after at the sales. Isn't that all you need from a first seasoner? Surely if you are looking for anymore you go proven. There will be plenty of very nice proven stallions available at £35k (or more). Reply
- TOPOFTHEHILL»Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:29 am
All fair comment RP! I would like to say also that I didn't mean to suggest that inbreeding or line breeding to Nijinsky was necessarily a bad thing, just that I hadn't seen much of it. Well I checked and it certainly isn't a negative. Its shocking to say that I must have had my eyes closed too often over the past 40 years. Is that the secret to this game? duplicating one of the best all time stallions without really shouting about it so that people like me take notice. I am still a novice really, but that's my lesson learned for today. Reply
- Villicious»Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:33 am
Oh god, here we go again, agreeing! He is certainly a questiony sort of horse and I don’t think a big money fee is on the cards because of that. The wind op. is there for all to see and he trained off pretty comprehensively. I think he doesn’t represent a bad commercial punt for sure - although that is fee dependent! but if you are looking for a balance between make me money AND breed me a racehorse I don’t think he’s an easy option to evaluate. I don’t know what percentage of good stallions are out of good race mares but I do know it is a lot higher than chance would deliver. There is a lack of them through Native Trail’s female line for sure. Reply
- Reference Point»Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:01 am
Ok if you are looking for a balance between making money and breeding a good horse (if that's even possible for a first seasoner) don't go anywhere near him. He is clearly an accident waiting to happen. I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole if I had a mare I thought could produce a decent horse (especially if I wanted to keep it). He falls completely in the category of first season foals, pin hook, yearling. Take your profit home and but a good horse or use it to go back to him in a few years if and when he has proven decent. Reply
- Valerie»Sun Sep 10, 2023 21:04 pm
They haven't announced his fee yet but it will be in Euros as they have announced that NATIVE TRAIL will stand at Kildangan Stud in Ireland. Reply
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