BREEDING FORUM

Posted: **Thu Apr 25, 2024 13:20 pm**

That is a strange expression. I came across it a few times in pedigree analysis books. I think it means of the hundreds of mares that go to a stallion a handful of those mares have an ancestor (or more than one) that matches with an ancestor in the stallion, and is the cause of the top runners. A problem is the books do not tell me how to find that important throw back ancestor.
Almost always the important ancestor in the mare is a full sibling of a horse in the sire, and these full siblings are commonly on the sire line or dam line.
Examples of sires who became unexpected successes are: Kendargent (2003) stud fee increased from 1k to 22k; Dark Angel (2005) stud fee 7.5k to 60k; Starspangledbanner (2006) fee from 10k to 50k; Siyouni (2007) stud fee 7k to 200k.

Kendargent (2003) has matched well with mares by Indian Rocket (1994). Both have Grey Sovereign; Prince Bio; My Babu, and the full sibling brother and sister Nasrullah (m) and Malindi (f) a few times, but the extra here is Kendargent (2003) has Kalamoun twice. Kalamoun's sire Zeddaan has Veronique (1937) (f) (Mon Talisman - Volubilis) as his 2nd dam, and Indian Rocket (1994) has L'Esperance (f) (Mon Talisman - Volubilis) the full sibling sister, as his 6th dam.

Dark Angel (2005) is perhaps simpler, although there may be more to be discovered. The 7th dam of Dark Angel is Bawn (1941) (f) by Khan Bahadur (1935) a minor stallion that stood in Ireland. Khan Bahadur is the full sibling brother of 1936 English Derby winner Mahmoud, who spent most of his successful stud career in the USA, and is found in many pedigrees, including Northern Dancer.

Starspangledbanner (2006) is unusual in that he only has Northern Dancer (1961) (m) once in his pedigree. The most common duplicated sire in modern pedigrees is Northern Dancer (1961) by Nearctic (1954) (m). Nearctic's 5th dam is Pretty Polly (1901). Starspangledbanner (2006) (m) has two full sibling sisters of Pretty Polly near the dam line in his pedigree: Adula (1902) twice and Miranda (1905) three times.

Siyouni (2007) had a moderate race record, one Group 1 win as a 2yo, and he failed to win as a 3yo. His pedigree is very ordinary so why is he a good sire (St Mark's Basilica; Paddington; Sottsass; Al Hakeem; City Light)?
Siyouni's dam Sichilla produced horses rated 105; 81; 109; 119; 118.
Siyouni's 2nd dam Slipstream Queen produced horses rated 105; 106; 95; 102; 82; 128; 108; 73; 106.
Siyouni's 3rd dam Country Queen produced horses rated 105; NR; 100; 85; ?; 104; ?.
Siyouni's 4th dam Carrie's Rough (1965) produced five horses in my data. I do not have ratings for them but the best by a long way was Country Queen (the 3rd dam of Siyouni) with USD 587,712 earnings.
Siyouni's 4th dam Carrie's Rough had one place from five starts, earning USD 1,175.

I think all the 100+ rating ability shown by the above horses by the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th dams of Siyouni, and by Siyouni himself as a stallion comes from Carrie's Rough (1965) (f) (Rough 'N Tumble - Carrie Louise), a poor racer and poor producer (with one exception Country Queen).

Like a rainstorm in a desert that produces hundreds of thousands of flowers Carrie's Rough has the badly needed ingredients that match all the stallions that originate from Northern Dancer (1961) (m) to produce top horses.
Carrie's Rough sire line is Rough 'N Tumble (1948) -> Free For All (1942) -> Questionnaire (1927) - > Sting (1921).
Sting (1921) is so rare he only has four offspring in my data of 712,340.
What is so unusual about Sting (1921)?
The 3rd dam of his sire Spur (1913) is Sandiway (1881) (f), and the 3rd dam of his dam is Sandiway (1881) (f) (Doncaster - Clemence).
Carrie's Rough has another instance of Sandiway (1881) (f) in her pedigree (through Count Gallahad, the sire of her 2nd dam).
Carrie's Rough has Sandiway (f) three times.

If you go back along the sires on the sire line of Siyouni (2007) -> Polar Falcon (1987) -> Nureyev (1977) -> Northern Dancer (1961) -> Nearctic (1954) -> Nearco (1935) -> Pharos (1920) -> Phalaris -> (1913) -> Polymelus (1902) -> Cyllene (1895) -> Bona Vista (1889) -> Tadcaster (1877).
Tadcaster (1877) (m) (Doncaster - Clemence) is the full sibling brother to Sandiway (1991) (f).
[I removed Bend Or (1877) as sire of Bona Vista (1889) and replaced him with Tadcaster (1877) in pedigrees as 21st century DNA analysis proved the sire was Tadcaster, as correctly claimed by stable staff after the 1880 English Derby win. Tadcaster is a village about 8 miles west of York.]

Tadcaster (1877) (m) is the 12th sire of Siyouni i.e 12 generations back.
Once Carrie's Rough was in pedigrees with her three instances of Sandiway (f) (Doncaster - Clemence) good runners, the majority rated 100+ appeared.

Note that Carrie's Rough is on the DAM line of Siyouni, Sting is on the SIRE line of Carrie's Rough, Sandiway is on the two DAM lines of Sting.
This tells me the horses on the sire lines and on the dam lines are probably the most important influencers in pedigrees.