IRISH BLOODSTOCK FORUMS :: View topic - SEA THE STARS

Oreally»Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:01 am
HARZAND raised my eyebrows a bit. He was 10,000 this year and covered 95 mares yet he drops to 8,000 next season. OK I get that but what surprises me is that he only covered 26 mares in 2018 (his second season at stud). What happenned? Was he injured or unwell or what? Anyone know? Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:34 am
He must have had some sort of problem, maybe he was just too immature for stud it is not at all uncommon for colts that retire at 3yo. It looks as though what ever it was he has recovered. Until he gets runners and winners his fee will be under a bit of pressure which is good for local breeders because he is a bit of a class act at that sort of money. Reply

barney»Wed Nov 13, 2019 13:30 pm
I thought going to stud at 4 was normal. He won the Derby so didn't go to stud until 4. Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Wed Nov 13, 2019 15:25 pm
It is normal Barney retired from racing at 3 start at stud at 4. But their all different and some are just not ready for stud at 4. Some take a bit longer to settle and a few never settle into the stud routine. Its a very unnatural environment especially with the early covers and it takes a lot of skill and understanding which the old stud masters had. Not so sure some studs get it these days. Reply

Villicious»Wed Nov 13, 2019 13:47 pm
Purely lack of interest I'm afraid. I haven't seen this years return of mares yet but I think 2019 mares covered will be a high proportion of N.H.. We know how few owners can afford the long game for a classic type and they all have their own agendas. The Aga Khan needs to stop being precious and get into the market place. He could set up some sort of ownership model to keep what he buys separate from his homebreds. The fact is there is no one to buy a Harzand and that's not going to change any time soon. Reply

Dargent»Wed Nov 13, 2019 14:32 pm
Correct I know a few NH men who sent him a few mares. In year 2 I was willing to send him a flat mare but they wouldn’t move on his advertise fee so I didn’t. I heard a fee of 5k talked about to cover a mare this year with him. Now if I could of got anywhere near that price in year two I would have sent him 2 or 3 flat mares. Reply

Reference Point»Wed Nov 13, 2019 15:22 pm
I must be missing something if you can get him for £5k. His 1/2 brother by Shamardal is a G1 winning miler in Aus and his dams 1/2 sister was 3rd in an Irish Oaks. There is plenty of class in his family as far as I can see and he must be too cheap at £5k before any runners? Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Wed Nov 13, 2019 15:43 pm
Agreed RP at 5 K too cheap he is from a very classy Brook Holliday family that the AK bought into when he bought a few mares. I could think of a whole lot worse value in a stallion but you are likely to get what you get with Sea The Stars, tough, genuine, good looking but not a 2yo. It would be very easy to breed an extreme stayer but send him the right mare and you could get a smart 10 furlong runner. Reply

Dargent»Wed Nov 13, 2019 16:08 pm
I probably didn’t explain myself correctly. In his second year at stud his fee was 15k on paper. I was willing to send him mares in that year but because it was his second year I wasn’t going to give 15k which was his fee in year 1. I would not have expected to pay the same price as someone paid for him first season, his price in year 2 was also 15k. Thankfully I stuck to my guns and didn’t use him in his second year. Then I bumped in a few friends during the year who sent him mares this year his 3rd year who asked my why I didn’t send him a mare or 2 this year. I said he was just to expensive in this current market and they told me he was 5k this year and they excepted NH mares. I would look very silly with a foal at this year’s foal sale after giving 15k if I had done, add costs etc, he or she would be standing me minimum 20k and people looking at my foal knowing the same stallion was available for 5k and covered NH mares. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying he won’t produce racehorses but how could I stay afloat if every stud farm treated the stallion the same way. Reply

Reference Point»Wed Nov 13, 2019 17:04 pm
I think I get it Dargent. You are saying he can be got for £5k this year. At this stage nobody knows if he is any good or not and as TOTH points out he is unlikely to get precocious 2yo's. I doubt he would ever have been seen as commercial gold even in his first year. My way of thinking is that he won 2 Derbys and from a very good family so if you have a mare that suits on pedigree he must be cheap (too cheap). By the time you have a yearling he would have had 3yo's so you could get lucky and for £5k what are you going to get that is proven. I suppose if you are going to sell as foals/yearlings come what may even £5k is too much. If he was over here I would use him. Reply

Squid»Wed Nov 13, 2019 23:19 pm
I never thought of HARZAND being physically suitable to make a N.H. stallion. Reply

Dargent»Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:37 am
Agree but the one thing I’ve learned in this game is if the pedigree has affinities the offspring tend to turn out nice. No reason why a smallish stallion and a average mare won’t breed a nice size horse. Reply

Reference Point»Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:56 am
Squid I agree. see a lot of STS's and they can be small. I guess a fair percentage of H offspring will be handy sized. I thought the same for Crystal Ocean. Of course Dargent is right about his pedigree and it could work out and at only £5k its not a bad gamble. Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:04 am
Dargent as you know I work on affinities all the time and one of the most common responses from clients who have been doing things differently and then use our services is 'the foal looks so classy' I see it too its very noticeable even if neither the sire or the dam are particularly attractive. I am not sure squid was just talking about Harzand's size I suspect he might consider him a bit 'pretty' to make a NH stallion I do not necessarily agree I think class and speed are going to be more important now and in the future. I have little knowledge or interest in jump racing but I do believe the actual obstacles are getting progressively easier in response to concerns over welfare. This is likely to continue to be the case so perhaps the physical demands will not be so important as they have been traditionally. Reply

TOPOFTHEHILL»Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:09 am
If Harzand is going to be even a part time NH sire he had better grow up quick because he will not get away with 20 something mares a season. I know the season is much longer and that takes in the better grass of spring and summer which helps a lot of stallions with difficulties. I have a feeling that he is going to be OK for the flat and I wish him well. Reply

Reference Point»Thu Nov 14, 2019 13:35 pm
'the foal looks so classy' - I have to say that in my limited experience this is exactly what I have found. I thought it was just random at first but it seems maybe not. Reply

English Gent»Thu Nov 14, 2019 18:33 pm
Absolutely agree - every foal I ever had looked "classy" !! Reply

Villicious»Thu Nov 14, 2019 19:20 pm
Someone has to keep the manufactures of Rose Tinted Spectacles in business. We Breeders buy them by the bucket load. Reply

Irish Paddy»Thu Nov 14, 2019 18:34 pm
Breeders are the ultimate "Eternal Optimists" ! Reply